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Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Posts: 145 Location: West Saint Paul

OK, that was nice. Finally got to play the long course last night. I'm a big fan of those extra holes. (I know so many people complain that when they put them back in that they should have put George's Gorge back, but I'm quite happy with it how it is now.)

I was a bit confused when we got to where they added in hole 9 last year, and couldn't find it. It seemed odd when we got to the end that they'd have us walk all the way over to short-layout 18, and play it as hole 24. Not a very natural flow at all.

Also, I'm kind of torn on the 25 basket dual layout. On one hand, it is really cool to have both the 18 and 24 hole options available. On the other hand, I think it's important for parks like this to have plenty of space for non-discers to have for their uses, and removing that one hole makes a huge difference for them, nearly doubling their disc free zone.

Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 181 Location: Minneapolis

I'm confused. They changed the 24-hole layout from last year and is 25 holes now?

Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Posts: 145 Location: West Saint Paul

There are 25 baskets in, so you have two options - the usual 18, as well as a new 24 hole plan. For 24, play as usual through 16, go down the ravine, and play those as last year. The hole that was 24 last year is now 23, so both the 24 and 18 hole layout play the short uphill hole as the final one. It even has both numbers on its plaque.

Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Posts: 145 Location: West Saint Paul

You guys wouldn't happen to have gotten out to Kaposia with your GPS yet, so that you can put the aerial map up, and get accurate distances, would you? I'm updating my scoresheet, and I still only have a guess for hole 17 of the 24 hole layout. (The first one down the ravine when you go to play the 24 hole route instead of 18. The one along the brook.) That, and I'm still looking forward to seeing how accurate my improvised aerial map is. Smile

The nice thing about the current setup that a friend pointed out to me - you don't have to decide on which way you're playing until after hole 16. When they changed from 18 to 24 last season, they added a different hole 9, and didn't keep 17 in, so there wasn't really a good 18-hole option, it was pretty much just 24. Yay for flexibility.

Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Posts: 145 Location: West Saint Paul

Dang, that's a big tree down on hole 13. I hope it gets cleared out soon. Especially since the pre-Majestic clearing crew seems to have already been through.

Well, once cleared out, it should make the initial drive slightly more open for most, anyways.

Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Posts: 145 Location: West Saint Paul

I finally updated my Kaposia map, in response to a query in the MFA Yahoo group:

Kaposia Map, June 2009

Three Routes:

1) The full 24 hole layout is as marked numerically on the map.

2) The "modern" 18 hole layout, which the course is reduced to for winter play is holes 1 to 16, B, 24.

3) The "classic" 18 hole layout, that supposedly reasonably closely follows an older layout of the course (I only very, very vaguely remember it) is 1 to 10, 16 to 23. I think. That's also the route that I was told that the Sundog uses, but I haven't played here with them yet. Anyone should please correct me if I got this one wrong.

Note 1: "A" is marked on the map because it was part of the summer 24 layout last year and is used by the Majestic.

Note 2: Holes 5 to 8 and B have alternate pin placements, and B also has a long tee that is often used.

Note 3: There are a few tricky transitions between holes (5 to 6, 8 to 9, 9 to 10, 13 to 14, especially), but that map should be enough to send you in the right direction. The A pin, a temporary pin, and the long tee for B were used to make a 27 hole course for the Majestic.

Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Posts: 145 Location: West Saint Paul

Trees down.

I didn't report a week or two ago, as it didn't seem terribly important, that a rather big piece of the really dead, termite eaten tree on 6 had fallen across the middle of the fairway. It will block a handful of skip over the hill shots, but not many.

Another tree has fallen across the spot in the trail from the basket for 5 and the tee for 6 where all the trees fall. Really a major blocker. If possible, walk back to the trail for the short pin. Really.

Joined: 10 Oct 2007 Posts: 145 Location: West Saint Paul

Weekday game tomorrow.

I have a random day off of work tomorrow, so I'll be hitting Kap sometime after lunch. There is enough snow on the ground that I would prefer to play with a partner for disc-spotting, so if you want to join me, just speak up.

Joined: 02 Jun 2008 Posts: 22 Location: tbd, twin cities

i hear kaposia and north valley are going pay to play for $30 each in january. no day passes. feel free to stop by gotta go gotta throw and let them know how you feel about this. then spend your disc money elsewhere.

Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 82

agerk4 wrote:

i hear kaposia and north valley are going pay to play for $30 each in january. no day passes. feel free to stop by gotta go gotta throw and let them know how you feel about this. then spend your disc money elsewhere.

What the heck does this even mean? Not the part about the pass, but the part about GGGT.

Joined: 02 Jun 2008 Posts: 22 Location: tbd, twin cities

word on the street is that the people at GGGT were the ones to suggest to the city that they could get some revenue by making the courses pay-to-play.

Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 82

agerk4 wrote:

word on the street is that the people at GGGT were the ones to suggest to the city that they could get some revenue by making the courses pay-to-play.

Sounds like the kind of gossip that keeps up this stupid rift between GGGT and the old school DG community.

Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Posts: 181 Location: Minneapolis

I'm all for pay to play. Keeps the losers off the courses. Don't care where the money goes to.

Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 63 Location: Hopkins

Not every discer is a loser nor can they afford to pay for each individual course yearly fees. I can't see that working in the long run. Imagine paying daily or yearly fee's on 7-15 local courses around the greater metro area. Just doesn't fit my my wallet much less someone else either I bet.

What might work is a statewide fee for pay to pay courses if such can be said. That way only a 1 time fee and no worry what tag or pass is needed for any particular day or course.

I wouldn't hesitate to take all of my business to GGGT at any given time, but as far as rumors go, their rumors only. I have yet to hear from their side on that part. If there's any truth to it, then it's a make more money factor only. To them I say don't get involved.

Let the super power parks (three rivers) do the pay to play. Three Rivers parks are all over the state with plenty of land to do this. Keep it simple!

But over all IMO, let it be as it is.. If one or 2 goes to p2p, then whats to stop the rest?

Joined: 11 May 2007 Posts: 82

goforparguy wrote:

Not every discer is a loser nor can they afford to pay for each individual course yearly fees. I can't see that working in the long run. Imagine paying daily or yearly fee's on 7-15 local courses around the greater metro area. Just doesn't fit my my wallet much less someone else either I bet.

What might work is a statewide fee for pay to pay courses if such can be said. That way only a 1 time fee and no worry what tag or pass is needed for any particular day.

I wouldn't hesitate to take all of my business to GGGT at any given time, but as far as rumors go, their rumors only. If there's any truth to it, then it's a make more money factor only. To them I say don't get involved.

Let the super power parks (threerivers) do the pay to play. 3rivers parks are all over the state with plenty of land to do this.

But over all IMO, let it be as it is.. If one or 2 goes to p2p, then whats to stop the rest?

I agree almost entirely; however as budgets tighten up I can understand a city saying that the only way they can support upkeep on a course is to make it pay. If it's a matter of pulling a course (or not maintaining it) or making it pay to play to supplement the cost them I'm OK with a decision to go pay. In an ideal world there are a lot of free options, but as the sport grows you have to assume that things are going to change.

On top of this it sounds like all of the early rumors were wrong. On mfa today it sounded like SStP was in contact with quite a few people about this decision and got a lot of opinion on it and it had little or nothing to do with GGGT. Why would you disparage them and say take your business elsewhere based on a rumor. I think that needed to be called out since it was irresponsible.